the only Illyrian blood/culture remain r Albanians
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Post from zivotinja to 20.08.2010 05:08:53
The new genetic make-up with even mtDNA says that Albanians are
slaves 65%
huns 9%
illyrian 7%
mongol 11%
native 11%
greeting
Post from Aleksander to 08.07.2010 12:07:55
Sorry people but the yugoslavs can have a high percent of being illyrians ! But the albanians r those who r directly ! The ortodoks church of greece , serbia n bulgaria make possible the unification of these nations but not according to their ethnicity but according to their religion ! Many of southern albanian became greks due to the church. If isnt so can u tell me how can 800.000 greks in 1830 could be 2day 11.milion ??? Or the serbs who their principality had only 70.000 people before taking autonomy from the ottomans ... Their church took the slavic people who werent serbs n gaved them serb nationality .
Post from Praud albano ilurian to 02.06.2010 04:06:14
i sink ze most ilurian ar albanian and bosnian pipl,ze kroatz and serbs jast a litl bat evribadi kän bi praud to hav ilurian rutz
Post from Illyrian to 17.05.2010 07:05:25
man you ppl are crazy.just look up the facts from IGENEA and see who has more Illyrian in them.Bosnians or Albanians ohh wait they allready said it was bosnians ouchh well i hope that ALAXANDER THE GREAT calim by albania is doing better then the ILLYRIAN thing hehehe
Post from Srdja to 26.04.2010 12:04:56
Some facts about Bakans and languages:
http://www.lebed.com/2008/art5386.htm
The route, the third stage, the next 13,000 years. Southern Siberia, the Balkans, the Dinaric Alps, the Adriatic. Home - 25 thousand years ago, the pass - 12 thousand years ago.
This phase - very important for the future of Europeans in general, and the Aryans in particular. During his birth was divided into West and Eastern Europe, the birth Aryan and Celtic. There was a kind of future allocation of the Slavs.
And so it was that he was still in Asia, on the way to the west, 18,000 years ago there was a mutation of M173, which gave Haplogroup R1, and followed by mutation of R25, resulting in a future version of the Western European R1b. This happened 16,000 years ago. Some carriers R1b remained in Asia, and continue to carry this haplogroup and now. Others went to the Caucasus and Eastern Europe, and much later in Western Europe. Typical of their representatives - the Celts, who appeared in Western Europe 3500-4500 years ago. By the way, the Celts - the name of a collective and were first used in its modern sense is not so long ago, in the early 18 th century, Edward Lyde, director Ashmoleanskogo Museum in Oxford. Traveling for the museum, he drew attention to the similarity of languages uelstsev, Cornish, Breton, Irish, Scots Gallic, and the ancient Gallic language. He combined these languages under a common, he had invented the name of Celtic languages. Although the very name of the Celts referred to another Julius Caesar in his book \\\"Notes on the Gallic War\\\" as a synonym for the Gauls.
But back to the group R1b. Nashe, Slavic ancestor in the group was not - nor with those who remained in Asia, nor with those who went to the Caucasus or in Western Europe. Our Slavic ancestors separated from them before, carried the R1 haplogroup in Eastern Europe and earning the last (so far) mutation M17/M198, lived 12,000 years ago in the Balkans, in the Dinaric Alps and down to the Adriatic coast. These two mutations remained for all those who form a kind of Aryans. In other words, haplogroup R1a1.
Slavs as such, as \\\"historical-cultural society, then, 12,000 years ago, of course, was not, but we are direct descendants of those who came to the Balkans at that time.
To call them \\\"Indo-Europeans\\\", strictly speaking, too, can not, because no Indian time in their history was not. The language in which they said was Aryan, simply by definition. It optionally can be called \\\"PIE\\\", assuming that after 7000 years, the descendants of the Aryans, who then will actually call themselves Aryans, come to India and Iran, will bring their Aryan language, it speak of North India and eastern Iran. And since that time the aria a thousand - fifteen hundred years since spread throughout Europe, both West and East, it is not surprising that from India to the Atlantic, three - three and a half thousand years ago, began to speak in similar dialects. Aryan.
And even more surprising that British linguists, arrived in India through 3,000 years after the events described, discovered this fact. And called the group of Indo-European languages. It is at that time, 200 years ago, it was reasonable.
But now obsolete. To name something is possible, but we must remember that it was the cause. But to call people who speak those languages, \\\"Indo-Europeans\\\" - this is ridiculous.
remember this is science not mithology!!!
Post from haha to 18.04.2010 05:04:14
sorry albanians but croats and bosnians are the real illyrians,maybe the serbs and montenegrinians but not the albanians,they just want to be illyrian but they`re not
Post from wtf??? to 26.02.2010 06:02:07
the albanians the only illyrian blood?
oh my god,how stupid humans are
albania is mixed like everybody and the ex-yugoslavians have the most illyrian blood
ask igenea or some universitys,this is the true
Post from jo to 15.02.2010 11:02:04
Ionians, Dorians and Aeolians. They make up the Hellenes. The Athenians were NOT Dorians as you have stated.
. levi, cohe,n sephardi, askenazi r all jews. someone can be jew-levi-cohen(or not levi or cohen) AND sephardi/ashkenazi so u actually believe that someone can trace their Y-chromosome to5 antic tribes... LOL and btw thracians ofc greek...
Post from Kiril to 15.02.2010 05:02:54
Dear Jo,
Thanks for clearing this up for all of us especially igenea and all the other genetic institutes out their. Thank you for revising the current ancient tribes list, so by your reckoning it should read as follows;
1. Aborigines
2. Arians
3. Egyptians
4. Ashkenazi
5. Arabs
6. Balts
7. Bantu
8. Basque
9. Berber
10. China
11. Cohen
12. Dacians
13. Etruscans
14. Teutons
15. Hellenes
16. Huns
17. Iberians
18. Illyrians
19. Indians
20. Indians
21. Inca
22. Inuit
23. Italians
24. Japanese
25. Jews
26. Celts
27. Koreans
28. Kurds
29. Levi
30. Ligurian
31. Maya
32. Masai
33. Dorian
- Macedonian
- Spartan
- Athenian
- etc.
34. Mongols
35. Oceanians
36. Phoenicians
37. Filipinos
38. Persians
39. Roma
40. Saami
41. Sephardim
42. Scythians
43. Slavs
44. Tibetans
45. Turkic
46. Thracians
47. Vandals
48. Vikings
Is the list correct now (item 33)? It should make you and all the other Hellenic warriors out there very happy. Oh, but hang on! How does the Hellenic tribe (item 15) fit into this model?
Please advise, we cannot wait!
Post from jo to 14.02.2010 09:02:49
fyi paternally i am not greek...and i arleady tested with igenea...
and as in another topic i agree that there cant be antic macedonians. if there was it should have been dorians, ionians and the rest of the ANTIC greektribes which later on they have been split into spartan, macedonian etc.
Post from Macedonian to 11.02.2010 11:02:44
@all "ancient" Greek and Albanian descendants:
The fact that you are punching the keyboard and writing something in the post proofs that you are alive and descend from somewhere, but for sure your first ancestors were from Africa. In order not to be confused any more and do flosculuous comments about your strong genetic roots, do as I did: order test kit from Igenea, scratch your mouth and send the kit back to Geneva. Than wait for the results and enjoy yourself. I do enjoy being Macedonian (not Greek (o:)
Post from Pelasgian to 27.12.2009 17:12:03
Dear Roman,
It's nice to see that Igenea teams started to delete the insulting comments.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all the Igenea fans and officials
Best Regards
Pelasgian
Post from iGENEA to 06.11.2009 14:11:55
Dear Pelasgian,
as i said, i think all peoples from the Balkans are a mixture of Slavs, Illyrians and other tribes. Maybe some peoples descend from Illyrians to a bigger extent than others, but however it is: Genetics should not be mixed up with politics, we take care of that for this forum.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Pelasgians to 05.11.2009 19:11:47
Mr. Roman
Illyrians were Mediterranean people.
Albanians were Mediterians as well.
And how could i pretend to be someone else that i'm not? I wouldn't do that not in the million years.
But I'm very confused why Yugoslavians (Southern Slavs) are so determined to become some one that their grand-grand-parent almost vanished from the earth's surface.
Yet, I'm not Albanian, but i'm Greek so no matter what the politicized historians/DNA researchers may say i do appreciate that Albanians have the legacy to call Illyrians cuz they at least speak one dialect dirived form Illyrian language, and Albanoi is mentiond even in BC era in same ground where they are now.
Dear Roman,
I'd suggest you to block the access for Southern-Slavs(Yugoslavians), cuz they make everything politic. They are making propaganda in every forum.
Best regards
Post from iGENEA to 05.11.2009 15:11:11
Dear Kulin Ban,
Albanians are not mainly E1b1b (todays name of E3b), only for about 22% which is more than in other countries on the Balkans but it is not abnormally high (Serbia got the same amount).
The ancient Illyrians belonged to different haplogroups, maybe more I2a than E3b, but in general there ist no strong connection between one haplogroup and one ancient tribe.
Todays Albanians are partially Illyrian, but that is also true for other people on the Balkans.
Dear Life-is-Just-a-Dream,
There are of course less E1b1b-Slavs than there are E1b1b-Illyrians because E1b1b spread across the Mediterranean Sea.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Life-is-Just-a-Dream to 05.11.2009 11:11:37
Dear Roman,
I\'m i wrong, but as far i know since the slavics lived in the northern side of hemisphere they couldn\'t have any African genes. And as far i know Albanians,Greeks, Italians, French, Spanish and Portuguese have all African gene. As we know the ancient civilized world was all surrounded to Mediterranean Zone. So Illyrians at that time would rather get married with civilized Egyptian woman than the Slavic one (or to be more precised, Slavs didn\'t exist on the civilized world).
Illyrians weren\'t the clean race, they were also mixture of Greeks, Phenocians, Hitties, Pelasgians, Latins and Celtics.
But Kulin Ban, if you don\'t have at least 5% of Phenocian genetic contain you don\'t have las 1% chance to be Illyrian.
And Albanians, for as much i know for them, they have a daily language which they use, and which can prove you wrong at any day you want Mr. Kulin Ban.
Bye Bye
Post from Kulin Ban to 05.11.2009 08:11:01
Dear Roman,
Could you please explain how the Albanians who are mainly the African gene E3b, can be considered Illyrian, while the Bosniaks and Dalmatians are I2a, a a haplogroup not found in Africa. Two groups very close together yet worlds apart in the genetic sense, one has to be Illyrian and the other not. Note that the Albanians are known as Arnaut, which in Turkish means "those who have not returned to their land" and in Arabic "a disgrace for us to return" and the term Shiptar in Arabic means "a very jealous man", Albanian is a modern term given to these people by the West Europeans.
Kind regards..
Post from Life-is-Just-a-Drea to 17.10.2009 10:10:53
Johnny,
Probably Macedonians were Greeks, probably they might be Thacians mixed with Greeks and Illyrians, which may be more trustful based on the geographic position, which is in borders with these three ancient regions.
But what i wanted to say was not to distinguish old Macedonians from old Greeks, but just i took as an example if Albanians are one of those ancient nation lived in Balkan based on Mr. Roman's views.
And i am very pleased for his answer.
But Jonny, you may agree with me that Albanians have more chance to Macedonians than Slavic Macedonians of today! No offending for Slavic-Macedonians, but they should not adapt the history for natianlistic agenda. They should try to find their rots elswhere in the Former Bulgarian Empire, because they most not forgot they speak a dialect of Bulgarian language.
I hope for not being miss understood from my Balkan neighbors.
Best regards
Life-is-Just-a-Dream
Post from Johnny to 17.10.2009 08:10:23
What do u mean by 'old macedonian' macedonian was greek, macedonian is greek and macedonian will continue being greek.
Post from iGENEA to 16.10.2009 19:10:42
The origin of the Albanians was and still is a disputed topic.
Most scientists agree that they mainly are Illyrian and/or Thracian and/or Dacian but not decendants from immigrants that arrived at the balkans later.
Of course it is possible, that the Illyrians contributed most to the Albanian people. Yet there is a certain probability that also other tribes contributed to the ethno-genesis of this Nation, which are the Thracians (Dacians are part of them) and also people from Italy or in later times slavic people.
But the geography of the country maybe limited the influence of immigrants.
The older theories that suggested a totally different origin of the Albanians are no longer accepted among most historians.
There is still much to discover and genetics is a young but precise tool to support future histrorical studies.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Life-is-Just-a-Dream to 16.10.2009 17:10:18
Roman!
Can you tell me you views about albanians? Can they be Illyrians or not?
They have unique language from other Balkans, these language is different from other languages abroad the Balkan 2, so do you have any idea who they most have been in ancient time? Can they be other than Illyrian, Thracian, Dacion or Old Macedonian (as we know scientists believe that these language are probably lost duet to the lack of archeological sources that prove the continuity)?
I just wonder if you could give me a professional thought about these concern?
It's very kind to share thoughts with you
Best regards,
Life-is-Just-a-Dream
Post from iGENEA to 16.10.2009 12:10:34
The sources iGenea uses are of course looked over. These sources mainly are studies released in established scientific journals that also take care about the quality of their content.
By comparison of different sources the danger of wrong results can as well be limited.
Of course you are right, there are politically motivated researches in some areas which should and can be avoided. But fortunately these are not the majority of researches.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Searching-The-Trouth to 15.10.2009 23:10:02
Mr. Roman,
About the illyrian influence, i think at least historians should took under considerations, cuz even thought Illyrian language is not certain that continues to exist (because many scientist thinks that Albanian language is decedent of Illyrian) the influence is certain.
Can you explain me more about these genetic tests? Who did those genetic researches?
I've read that these researches are not made by the Igenea team of research, therefore Igenea are can't guaranty that these results are real.
The local researchers, especially in Former Yugoslavian territories where the conflict were very tensed just few years ago, are not capable and are very suspicious to be consider as a scientific researches, therefore those researches are conducted mostly to get falls results in order to prove their "legitimacy" as a old nation who has rights to be the one who aim to be.
So i sow many comment till now, but its very important for the prestige of this institution to disprove these results until igenea comes with their own results.
Please consider these suggestion!
Best Regards
Searching-The-Trouth
Post from iGENEA to 15.10.2009 19:10:11
Rome indeed tried to incorporate the Illyrians into the Empire stronger than other tribes, because the Illyrians lived right over the Adriatic Sea and could have been a permanent threat if they were not pacified.
I am not an expert on this but of course it is possible that there was an influence of the Illyrian language to Latin. The Problem is, that we do not yet know much enough about this language.
Empires and Nations come and go, like cultures, languages and tribes do. That is what makes european history as complex as it is.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Open-the-Trouth to 15.10.2009 14:10:49
Dear Roman!
I do agree that Latin influence of Albanian language is far easyer to notice than the influence from Greek language. But i think this is as a result of far greater influence that Rome had in the region than Greeks especially in from III century BC. For a period of around 1800 years Roman Empire has been a ruler of the Balkan territory, Byzantine empire spoke Greek only for shorter period.
The golden period of both Illyria and Ancient Greece ended before 2200 or 2400 years, where all these territories felt under Roma Empire. Taking under consideration that the Illyrians were the biggest nation in Balkan, they were also the biggest threat for the Roman Empire from be Balkan. There were some challanging battles between Romans and Illyrians as you may know cuz you are Historian i guess. So the political control of the Illyrians from the Roman athorities indicates to be higher than for other Balkan nations because Illyrians were a direct threat.
This can describe also why more than 10 or 20 Roman Emperors were from Illyrian origin.
As for the relations between Greeks and Albanians, these relations can be date only from before Great Alexander\'s and Phyrrus period, or even maybe from before 800 BC, cuz if you read the Greek mythology Illyria and Greece are brothers. This fact indicates that they live close to each other, and believed in same pagan god from the beginning.
And also a fact that Historians never discuss, is there a influence of Illyrian Language to the Latin Language? there are many tribes from balkan leaving in Italy so the genetic contain of Italy as well as Itallian language should be mixed with Illyrians and the influence should be from both sides.
The same can be said also for Greek language i think Illyrian influence to the Greek language is equal as Greek influence is to Illyrians.
It\'s a sharing of thought so i hope i didn\'t disturbed you Mr. Roman!
But one request that i have is that, there are so much great nations in the past that now are small nation, or some of them doesn\'t exist anymore to represent their past, such is the case of Old Macedonians, and please don\'t let the today great nations to grab the past, cuz History is about the decoding the past, not about the building the future. And most of nations in Balkan and in Europe in general when they become Empires they tried also to be empires of the past. So History need to be re-written, The Ancient History is not all about Rome and Greece, there where some other nations there 2.
bye bye
Post from iGENEA to 15.10.2009 07:10:36
Dear Johnny and Admit-the-truth
It is correct, that the Illyrians like the Dorians and Thracians where the first big ancient tribes in the Balkans that mainly consist of Indo-Europeans.
Concerning the Albanians it can be said, that their language can be traced back to the illyrian language. But there is also said that Latin had a bigger influence on modern Albanian than Greek had - which does not mean, that the Albanians are more realted to Latin speaking tribes than to the Greeks.
Roman C. Scholz
iGENEA
info@igenea.com
www.igenea.com
Post from Admit-the-truth to 14.10.2009 20:10:21
Yes Johnny!!!
You are right, Albanians and Greeks should embrace each other more closely, because they used to live long time together (more than 3000 or 4000 years) and even many Albanians were even assimilated in Greeks (For example Arvanitka) and also possibly many Greeks were assimilated into Albanians through time to time.
Also maybe Historical dogma that existed through these last 3 centuries, made scientist to distinguish all links between these two populations but i've hears many Greek mithologic god names, and i found it very easy to translate the meaning of those god names in Albanian (e.g. Zeus - Dheu , Hera - Era , Aferdita - Afer Dita , Paris - Pari , Troy - Troj , etc. And i don't doubt many of these names have also Greek meaning, which speaks that both, Greeks and Albanians should re-write the history and show to everyone that at ancient times Illyrians/Albanians and Hellens/Greeks united conquered the world (with Great Alexander's Macedonia, or with Pyrrhus's Epirus.
Like David Gilmore said (in the lyrics of song "Hey You" from album THE WALL, Pink Floyd)
"Together we stand, Divided we fall"
Post from Johnny to 14.10.2009 19:10:17
****than to modern bulgarians and modern romanians**
Post from Johnny to 14.10.2009 19:10:16
All indo-eauropean languages are related in one way or another but i believe that the native languages in balkans are Albanian(illyrian) and Greek, the rest are slavic languages which were spoken in the balkans since the 6/7 century AD.
also at wikipedia u can see that The ancient Thracians are more related to modern Greeks and modern Albanians according to dna studies.
Post from Admit-the-truth to 12.10.2009 19:10:17
Yeah Johnny, Greek is old 2. But based on what i\'ve read Greek is a bit alien language for Balkan because according to the scientists \"Among living languages Greek seems to be most closely related to Armenian (see also Graeco-Armenian) or the Indo-Iranian languages (see Graeco-Aryan).\" But yes Greek is spoken in Balkan for more than 3000 years now, they have a legitimacy in Balkan too.
Brother, read this article < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeco-Aryan >
Post from Johnny to 12.10.2009 16:10:38
and the other one is the Greek language
Post from Admit-the-truth to 11.10.2009 21:10:19
Albanians are one of the two Balkan ethnic groups or probably the only Balkan ethnic group that have a Language that is basically developed in Balkan. Albanian language is closly related with all languages of old European ethnic groups such as Pellasgian, Illyrian, Thracian, Dacian and even with Hittites. So basic contain of Albanian culture is the oldest and the most the key to decode the past.